Polyamory and Religion with @puritytopolyamory
What do purity culture and mononormativity have in common? I speak with @puritytopolyamory as she shares her fascinating story of moving from the oppressive Evangelical Christian religion to solo polyamory. We discuss:
- How purity culture is rape culture, and why it is particularly damaging to people socialised as women
- Why the many changes that occur in the opening up process lead to so many previously monogamous relationships failing at no fault of their own
- How Christianity and polyamory can be reconciled, but not purity culture and polyamory
- Why both of us no longer identify as demisexual
and much more.
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transcribed by Jenna Cushing-Leubner
Leanne: Welcome to Happy Polydays, a series of intimate conversations about polyamory, sexuality, identity, and relationships, hosted by me – Leanne Yau of the Poly Philia blog.
Leanne: Hello everyone and welcome to day 10 of the Happy Polydays series. Today I’m speaking to @puritytopolyamory who specializes in talking about deconstructing religion within the context of polyamory. Welcome @puritytopolyamory. Tell people more about what you do on your page.
@puritytopolyamory: Hello, hello! I talk mostly on my page about my evangelical background in Christianity and I focus mostly on recovery from purity culture. I guess I’ll give a little spiel about what purity culture is, in case anybody has been spared from that.
Leanne: Please do.
@puritytopolyamory: Basically, purity culture is the idea that you are looking for your one soulmate that God has for you, and you are holding off on being intimate in any way until marriage. So there is a ton of pressure within the church by pastors and by parents that are essentially saying that you must not be sexual in any way before you’re married. So I experienced that in my younger teen years. I became a Christian at a summer camp and was really involved in church, and bible study, and all of that, and had this messaging taught to me that basically, I needed to find my spouse, and I needed to wait to get physical with them until the wedding day, pretty much. Coming from that background, I obviously have made a pretty large journey into polyamory, so a lot of evolution there.
I guess what I noticed back in the beginning of this year – I was kind of looking for more resources that talked about polyamory in the context of religion, and I was unable to find that kind of account or focus. So I kept just opening my account and writing about my own personal experience, and it’s sort of grown into a space where I just have a lot of people who come from that evangelical background – there’s a lot of people who come from Mormon backgrounds – basically any oppressive religious structure that taught purity culture, and people who are recovering from that ideology. And then I really like to say that, at least here in the United States, most of our sex education is abstinence-only education, and so there’s a flair of purity culture there as well. I really feel like I sort of target it at pretty much anyone who felt shame and guilt around their sexuality at all, and then is now sort of making the very big transition that is getting into non-monogamy.
Leanne: Yeah. There are a lot of deconstructing religion accounts, and there are a lot of polyamory accounts, but I think yours is the first that marries the two concepts – which is surprising that there wasn’t something like that before, because there are quite a lot of ex-Mormons, ex-fundies, exvies, who got into polyamory later on, you know? The @3.mountains triad – who are very well known on TikTok – Janie, from that triad, she grew up evangelical as well, and talks about that on her channel a little bit. But that’s not a specific focus of her channel. I think it’s really valuable that you’re creating this space in this community for people to come together and talk about the effects of purity culture.
So I’m coming at this from – I’m not a very religious person at all. I grew up in Hong Kong. My parents – well, my mum, rather – is Catholic. But she wasn’t a super strict Catholic. It’s more like if something good happens, she’ll whip out God’s name to say it it was His path or His way, and if something bad happens, she’ll be like “God has a plan”. But beyond that, I didn’t go to church. I went to communion, but none of it was taken super seriously, you know? It was just kind of like something that my mum would take out as a teachable moment whenever she felt like it was convenient, rather than we stuck to the book constantly. Even though I was technically raised Catholic, I pretty much gave up on it when I was nine or ten, and my parents were like – ok. I didn’t have that overshadowing my views on sexuality, or that kind of thing. So, you know, I’m very fascinated with your story. Growing up with these beliefs – and also, you said you became Christian at a summer camp. So you weren’t raised Christian?
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. So my parents were Christian, but they were not – there’s definitely different levels. From what you’re talking about, I’d say my mom would consider herself a Christian, but she never made any kind of judgement or shamed me or anything like that. When I experienced that, it was more at the camp and at the youth groups and churches that I got involved with myself.
Leanne: Okay. There are different levels. In the U.K., there’s a term for Christians who only really celebrate their Christianity at special events, and they’re called “Christmas and Easter Christians”. So, outside of Christmas and Easter, it’s not a big deal.
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. I would say that’s probably my family. I think it actually bodes well for me being able to have this space, because I have kind of a privilege in that my family would never disown me to find out that I’m polyamorous. At this point, they all know, and they all accept me and love me and everything. So I’m super thankful for that, because I know there’s a majority of my followers who have a lot of fear around coming out because of their family of origin. So I do feel like I have a great position. I was exposed to the extreme side of judgmental Christians, Christianity, from my ex’s family. I spent sixteen years, basically, being subject to that. But because we’re no longer together, I don’t really have to worry about what they think anymore. So that’s really nice. I do feel like I was exposed to it. I understand it. I understand the shame and the guilt that comes along with it. And I have the freedom now to speak out in a way that feels really good for me, and maybe gives voice to people who are not able to talk about it as much.
Leanne: Yeah. For sure. You mentioned the more extreme end of judgement and shame. Could you possibly share some anecdotes and give some examples of significant moments where you felt purity culture had made a large impact on your beliefs – anything you feel is shocking today, basically?
@puritytopolyamory: The rhetoric in the evangelical church around purity, it varied depending on which church you went to and what the pastor decided for how to illustrate it. But basically, there are so many metaphors they would use on us as teenagers. I’ve heard things like, “you would be a chewed up piece of gum for your spouse” if you had sex before you’re married, or “you’re ripping a piece of paper, and you can never put it back together”. Just all of these crazy metaphors. There was purity rings in Christian bookstores that you could go to, and your dad could give you a purity ring, and you could pledge your purity with a purity card. So just all of this huge amount of pressure as teenagers to make these promises that were basically combatting our awakening sexualities, right? I think we were put in these positions that we were starting to have these feelings and hormones and everything flowing – and instead, we had to hide it and suppress it. And that just breeds unhealthy feelings and shame and guilt. For myself, I started dating my ex when I was sixteen. Every single time we would have some kind of physical encounter, I would feel this immense amount of guilt afterwards and be crying, and just be like, “Oh my gosh, we can’t do this again. We can’t do this.” It just weighed on me so heavily.
Leanne: And do you think – oh, sorry, keep going.
@puritytopolyamory: No, it’s fine. So we did that for the better part of two years. From the ages of – I was about to turn seventeen when we started dating, until nineteen, we did this, obviously, we’d get hot and horny and do things. And then afterwards we’d just break down and feel terrible. We did that for two years, and then finally he had proposed, and so I was like, okay! I’m definitely marrying him. I have a ring on my finger. “I’m married in my heart.” That’s something you would hear evangelical Christians say: “We are married in our heart!” It’s okay now, right? Just anything to justify it. We finally had PIV sex, or whatever. I mean, we were doing other sexual things. But it’s just so stupid that that’s the thing that we were supposedly not supposed to be doing. And then after that, the guilt was terrible for me. We were so oddly and weirdly confronted by his family, that was asking us about our personal, intimate life. And for some reason, my ex thought it was a good idea to share this information with them.
Leanne: Oh god.
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. And then it was just like six months of just being treated like basically I was a terrible human being. It was such mindfuckery, basically, up until the wedding day. And then we got married, and I remember distinctly coming back from our honeymoon and seeing all of my in-laws again, and all of a sudden, I was treated like this amazing human – because I was a wife now. So, it was really, really difficult to make that switch. And then on top of that, basically you’re telling these young kids: “Don’t think about sex. Don’t act like you enjoy sex.” You become almost sexually repulsed in a way, because you’re being trained to be like that. But then all of a sudden you’re supposed to flip a switch, and you become a spouse, and suddenly you’re supposed to have this incredible sex life that God is going to bless you with – if you wait.
Leanne: Oh my god.
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah!
Leanne: Yeah, so you literally flip from "sex is this no-good-thing that’s going to send you to hell”, and it’s basically – in some religions, I’ve been told it’s a sin akin to murder, basically – and then you flip that to this God-given gift that you should save for your one true love. And it’s like, wait. So this “bad” thing, you’re supposed to save it for your one true love? That doesn’t go together.
@puritytopolyamory: Right, yeah. And then within the context of marriage, if you had gotten that far, you suddenly are – for a lot of, especially women in marriage in the church – you are really basically encouraged to sort of do whatever your husband asks you to do. So I wrote about this a few weeks ago, and asked for people’s experiences, and lots of people wrote in basically sharing about how the church kind of encourages this thought process of: you are your husband’s helper, or whatever. And whenever they want it, you must give it to them. So, imagine you basically believing that sex is evil and you can’t think about it, and then the next week being told you have to say yes, no matter what.
Leanne: Wow. Yeah. I can imagine there could be a lot of pressure on women in particular. I wonder, could you speak more on how gender factored into the effects of purity culture on an individual?
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. So, from the conversations I’ve had with men who were a part of purity culture - I don’t think it was just women. I think that women are maybe more affected, because of that idea of you’re serving your husband, or whatever. I think for men it’s like, you become kind of, that whole idea that men are pigs. You just have to give it to them whenever. For myself and what happened with us, I think we just had different drives. And that’s not wrong. It’s just a fact. It’s just a simple fact. Instead of me sort of trying to communicate through that with him, instead I pretty much shamed him for his desires and what he wanted, and how often he wanted it, and all of that. So it just became this huge dance of him asking me, me not feeling that, me shaming him, and resentment building because of that. So yeah, I definitely think all of that is a huge factor.
The other thing that sort of comes up a lot that we talk about is the idea that you basically cannot be friends with the opposite gender. You sort of cut off. Because I remember this distinct story where a pastor was sharing about how if he is so – the term is “above reproach” – if he is on an elevator, and a woman walks on, he will immediately get off the elevator. He won’t stay on it to ride to the next floor, or whatever, because he won’t be alone with woman. This is a real story that was shared to me.
Leanne: Because a woman is so inherently sexual that he can’t stand to be put near her?
@puritytopolyamory: Right, yeah. That’s the thing, is it’s just really making it that all sexuality and everything is in the hands of a woman. It’s our responsibility. And again, going back to how we serve our husbands, it all comes back to us. And that is why we – many of us who are speaking out about it – say purity culture is rape culture. It genuinely makes it so that all of a man’s desires and sexuality and everything is the woman’s responsibility.
Leanne: Yeah. I can absolutely see the correlation there. So that was the kind of environment that you grew up in – sixteen years, in your marriage and your relationship, ever since that summer camp. How did you move from that to non-monogamy?
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah, so, for us, that dynamic played out for a really time in him just having that higher drive, me shaming him, him just struggling with the shaming – of course – and him sort of also continuing to push boundaries. Because another thing that purity culture really robs us of is consent, is learning about consent. I don’t think I heard the word consent until I was fully deconstructed. So that dynamic just continued to sort of play out in our relationship. We eventually went and sought out a sex therapist, and she encouraged me to really think about my own desires and my own fantasies. I remember her just looking at me and being like, “What are you into?” And I honestly could not answer that, because up until then, our entire intimate relationship had been all about what he wanted. So, I did. She also gave me – at this point I had started sort of deconstructing my faith and pulling that apart. And she gave me the permission to really lean into masturbation. Because we were taught, as well, that that’s wrong. So, not only were we being taught that we couldn’t have sex with someone else, we genuinely were taught that we couldn’t even do that with ourselves. So it was the first time that someone had been like, “It’s not wrong. You can explore your sexuality, figure out what turns you on.” So I started to do that. I started to think about it. I had a couple of experiences, went to Vegas with some friends. We didn’t do anything, but my friends danced with some guys, and I came back and shared that with my husband, and he was like, “Oh – you should have danced with people.” I was like, “whaaat?” It just threw me. Because for him, he had never internalized the part of Christianity that had shame around sexuality, because I don’t know if he was just getting different messaging as a man, but that’s my best guess at this point. That they weren’t really talking to the boys like they were to the girls. Which lines up with that women are the holders of sexual experiences, and all of that.
Leanne: Yes. Yes.
@puritytopolyamory: So, he was quite kinky, I guess? He was outside the vanilla box, for sure.
Leanne: Okay, yeah.
@puritytopolyamory: Because, again, he did not care as much about the sexual shame part of Christianity. So he encouraged me, basically, to continue this path of exploration. And that went on for several months, and then we started to talk about – I remember really fun experiences where I was admitting to him for the first time that I had looked at porn, and that was fun and exciting for us, and all of that. So this just slowly morphed into me sharing fantasies about being with someone new. Because, for myself, I had never even kissed anyone else. So, just sharing with him, “Oh, I wonder what that would be like.” And that was not something that he had thought about – which surprised me, because I had thought about it! There comes my non-monogamous self sort of appearing for the first time. So we just slowly unravelled that ball and we got into the space of non-monogamy online. I had asked him how he would feel about me talking to other people just to explore, and he was okay with it. Again, I think because he was just very excited about me becoming this new person.
Leanne: Yeah. It’s a self-discovery journey, I think, to watch someone you love find out new things about themselves. That’s always kind of – you know, it’s scary as well, but it can be a very fulfilling experience.
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. And I think what really happened – and obviously, hindsight is twenty-twenty – I like to draw the correlation between not having a good sexual education when you’re young, and being under purity culture and all of this, to kind of what happened to us, where we were not at all prepared for non-monogamy. We had not done the research. We didn’t even know what we were doing. We were just like, “This is really fun!”, you know? We basically didn’t - again, it seems so naïve now to say it, but we had been taught our whole lives that once you find your soulmate that God had appointed for you, then that would be it. There’s no way you would fall in love with someone else, right?
Leanne: [laughter] Because you’d found “the One”, right? You’re locked in!
@puritytopolyamory: It sounds so naïve, and I’m just like – because I remember a conversation that my friend had with me who wasn’t a Christian. She was like, “So you guys are exploring non-monogamy,” and I was like, “Yeah!” And she was like, “Well, what happens if you fall in love with someone?” And I was like, “Oh, pft! That’s not going to happen. I love my person! I have my person, you know?”
Leanne: Oh, wow!
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. I was just so naïve. And this is part of the reason why I’m doing a lot of the work that I’m doing now. Because I definitely want to help people, and especially people who are coming from that Christian mindset of, “I’m finding “the One” that God has for me.” So, you know, this will be fine, whatever.
So basically – long story short – we all know that’s not real. And I ended up developing really strong feelings for someone that I’d met through that online experience, and after many years of sort of trying to go back and forth between reconciling that and figuring that out, I was just like, I think that non-monogamy is just so much more realistic for someone like myself. I don’t think that I can be with one person who I’ve been with since I was sixteen years old for the rest of my life in a monogamous way. And I did come to him and tell him. Once I’d discovered polyamory – that was something that came a little bit further into the journey – but once I’d discovered feelings for that person, I was kind of like, “Wait. You can love more than one person at a time. Okay. Oh! It’s called polyamory. Okay!” I ended up approaching him about it and, yeah, I mean, to go into the whole long story of the three years that was between that, but long story short is that it just didn’t really work for him, and that’s not what he wants for his life, which is totally fine and valid. But it ended up that I’m moving into more of a solo-poly life at this point. So, yeah.
Leanne: And do the two of you have children?
@puritytopolyamory: Yes, we do.
Leanne: So do they know about all this stuff that’s been going on?
@puritytopolyamory: No, they’re still young, so… and they wouldn’t – that’s the thing. We could all sit here and go, “Oh, it was polyamory. She discovered she’s polyamorous or wants polyamory.” But there’s so much more to the story and to relationships and compatibility that people don’t know or see, so.
Leanne: Yeah, yeah. There’s often more layers to it, all of the time.
@puritytopolyamory: Right, right.
Leanne: And I think what you said about you had this naïve idea that once you found your person, that was it, you were locked in. It’s interesting, because I really don’t think that’s unique to people who grew up very religious. There’s this belief that you’ve found the one, and you don’t need to work hard anymore, because you’ll just be happy forever. You know, the Disney happily ever after narrative. But the reality is that relationships take work, and particularly in long term relationships, desire has to be cultivated. And, you know, a lot of people don’t realize that. They just assume that if you love someone, then everything else should come easily. And that isn’t the case at all.
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah, yeah. So, it kind of frustrates me in some ways that people can look at our story and point to polyamory or non-monogamy and go “That’s what went wrong”, when we all know, there’s so much more to it. For instance, compatibility-wise, our faiths just completely – I mean, his faith stayed the same, but my faith changed a lot. I no longer consider myself a Christian. I basically label myself agnostic. But that was not the same for him. He was able to maintain his faith and it stayed really important to him. So that was just another piece of the pie here of incompatibility between the two of us. But I think polyamory definitely was the final piece, where I was like, this is definitely pointing to incompatibility and totally different directions for our future.
Leanne: Yeah, yeah. I think it’s really important to highlight that, because so many relationships fall apart after opening up. And a lot of people don’t realize that you go through quite a lot of changes when you’re opening up a relationship. Firstly – obviously – you’re kind of transitioning the entire foundation of your relationship. Monogamy is based in exclusivity, and you’ve just taken that away. And that’s massively destabilizing. And there’s the whole thing where you’re unlearning everything you were taught to believe about relationships, about love. The whole idea that you have your “soulmate”, your “other half”, you know? That kind of deconstruction, that kind of unlearning of core beliefs, is also a really massive change. And then not to mention the self-discovery journeys that each of you are going on, and sometimes you come out the other end and you’re not even recognizable to each other at all. So, you know, yeah. Like you said, it’s very easy to point the finger and go, “Oh. Polyamory fucked this up.” But the amount of change, and the different types of change that happen when a monogamous couple open up their relationship, cannot be understated. And I think that people kind of brush over this for some reason, because it’s really hard. I genuinely really commend couples who are able to make that transition and still be together on the other side. Because it’s not just due to immense amounts of skill in communication and trust, but also luck. Because sometimes you go on that self-discovery journey, and you become a different person. And that can’t be controlled. That can’t be helped. And you have to be immensely lucky to be on the other side and still be with your partner at the end of it.
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. It’s almost like you kind of have to go on a similar evolution journey.
Leanne: Exactly.
@puritytopolyamory: And I see it happening in the deconstruction community as well. One spouse might completely deconstruct – again, like I did, consider themselves agnostic - and one, their faith is super important to them. So, yeah. It’s just all about acknowledging that we can evolve. And – I don’t know – for the couples that are able to do it together, and stay at the same or similar paces? I think it’s really cool. I also really like the analogy of just imagining a whole new relationship. I know that Esther Perel talks about when an affair happens and you’re basically burning the whole thing down and starting new, right? I think, you know, not to sound extreme or anything, I do feel that that is probably pretty similar when you change your relationship structure. You kind of do have to create a whole new relationship together. And if you’re both not on the same page about what that relationship looks like, it’s going to be pretty rocky.
Leanne: Yeah. I remember Jessica Fern in Polysecure – in the early chapters of that book – I remember her mentioning that … or was it… I’m not sure whether it was Polysecure or one of her YouTube lectures. But she compared opening a previously monogamous relationship to demolishing a house and just reconstructing it. Because she was saying how it’s not like you’re building a fancy extension. You’re not renovating and repainting the walls. You are burning the whole thing down and building it up again. And, yeah, I think that lines up with what Esther Perel said as well.
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. It is tough. Yeah. I think it’s possible. But I think for those of us who come from a Christian background, or an oppressive religious background – especially those of us who are trying to make this transition with a spouse that they have married in that background? It presents a lot of challenges.
Leanne: Yeah. I think any time you have to question an entire belief system, obviously, you don’t know what it’s going to be like on the other side.
So, you don’t identify as Christian anymore. But do you think that – I mean, obviously, I do know that there are polyamorous Christians out there, and there are polyamorous people who are all kinds of religions. But what’s your personal take on reconciling Christianity and polyamory? Or specifically evangelical Christianity?
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah, I mean, I think polyamory is this beautiful thing where we all sort of go: whatever works for you, works for you, right? So I go with that same mindset. And when it comes to faith, I do know a lot of people who are able to have some kind of faith – even Christian faiths – and are polyamorous.
There’s a video by – I really want to get him on my podcast, I haven’t talked to him yet – a guy who runs @queertheology on Instagram. You can find him. He does a video that is about “Jesus is Polyamorous”. But, yeah, I think there are definitely people out there. Especially, I’ve noticed there are a lot of queer polyamorous folks, which is amazing and beautiful. So I’m going to be – definitely one of my first episodes of my second podcast season that’s coming up – I’m going to be talking to someone who considers themselves a Christian and is polyamorous. So, I’m excited! I’m excited to talk to them and understand how they can reconcile their faith with these ideas. But, yeah.
I mean, at the basis of it, it’s just love. It’s just that love is abundant. And I think, realistically, God is love. And if you’re able to just lean into that, I definitely understand how people can maintain their faith and be polyamorous, too.
Leanne: Yeah. Yeah. “Love thy neighbor” taken to literally. [laughter]
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah, yeah. I do think the main thing is just sexuality. So, if you really hang on to that “sex outside of a monogamous, hetero relationship is sin”, then you would never be able to make that kind of transition. So, yeah. That’s why I think there’s a lot of queer Christians who are able to be like, “Yeah! Why wouldn’t we?” You know?
Leanne: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay. Well, so you know, you can reconcile Christianity – or religion – and polyamory. But it’s purity culture and polyamory that you think would not mix?
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. I think that’s a really good way to put it. I think shame around our sexualities and our desires and stuff is not going to bode well if you are seeking a polyamorous structure.
Leanne: For sure, yeah.
So, now you identify as solo-polyamorous. So, what motivated you to gravitate towards solo-polyamory specifically, rather than any other type of polyamory?
@puritytopolyamory: I mean, I am open to however my life – whatever way my life goes. I could never have anticipated, ten years ago, having these thoughts and desires and going in this direction. So I’m really just open to whatever. But right now I’m a single parent, and I definitely don’t want to live with anyone. So right away that kind of knocks off a nesting partner. But I think, for myself, because I had been with my ex since I was sixteen, there’s just a really important part of myself I’m still discovering. Like, for instance, I had a feeling I was demisexual, but I had no way of knowing before becoming non-monogamous. Or, again, with my sexuality, just exploring all of those questions. For myself, solo-polyamory is, I think, the best way to really be the most liberated in my choices. No one has the ability to have a say over what I do with my body or who I love.
Leanne: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
@puritytopolyamory: So I just really identify with that. You know, again, I don’t know who I will meet. I don’t know how things will change and what I’ll want. Honestly, I don’t know if I will always maintain a polyamorous relationship structure. I can see myself – I don’t know – I often contemplate: if I were in a relationship, like an anchor partner relationship, that allowed me to have the freedom with my connections that I really wanted, will there be parts of my life where we appear monogamous? Sure. I’m totally open to that. I’m not willing to date anyone who is going to shut the conversation down before we can begin. Because of that, I conduct all of my connections in a way that everyone knows how I feel about love, and that I am not going to cut love off because someone else told me to.
Leanne: Absolutely, yeah. That completely makes sense. I think it’s really important – and I’ve said this with previous guests on this series already – it’s important not to let your identity and labels be so fixed that they end up no longer serving you, right? Some people kind of attach themselves to a certain style of polyamory, or a certain identity, or a certain sexuality, for so long that even when the reality doesn’t match up to it, they still kind of cling onto that, because it’s all they’ve ever known. I think it’s very important not to box yourself in, just in case you might want something different in a couple years. And it’s okay. Like I said, labels aren’t commitments, and it’s important to allow for flexibility. So it’s good that you’re open to whatever comes, really. And I completely understand that after being in a sixteen-year marriage or relationship, you would want to break out of that and basically experience the complete opposite, right?
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah, exactly. It does feel like, okay, what is the ultimate freedom for myself? Trying to figure out who I am and that’s the stage of my life that I’m in now, which has been really amazing.
Leanne: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So I wanted to touch on – you mentioned just now that you identify as demisexual, or you think that you’re demisexual. I remember, back when you first started your account, we had a conversation, way way way way back, where we were talking about how purity culture might have had an effect on someone identifying as demisexual.
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah.
Leanne: Do you have any particular thoughts on that? And I understand this is kind of thorny to talk about, because I don’t want to say that every demisexual person is just suffering under purity culture. Obviously, I’m not saying that. But as someone who – I did identify as demisexual at one point in time, and then later I just discovered, oh no. It was just that I was just a bit sheltered. And now I’m a massive slut! (laughs) And I identify as - I’m the furthest from demisexual as I could possibly be. And that was my personal journey. So, yeah, I was wondering if you have any thoughts on that?
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah, yeah. And definitely acknowledging, again, that demisexuality is valid. For myself, the beginning of walking into non-monogamy, I was just so broadly the same thing: sheltered, shy, and just again felt shame for having these sexual feelings and stuff. So I kind of associated that with, okay, maybe I need an emotional connection in order to get sexual. So that must mean that I’m demisexual.
Leanne: Yeah, yeah.
@puritytopolyamory: I think that, for myself, what non-monogamy has given me is the freedom to explore that in a way. So, right now, I feel like – this is where I’m at right now – demisexuality for me looks like: I can still feel sexual attraction to people, but it’s like, I like to describe it like having an appetizer, but not the full meal. That’s what it feels like for me. So, for me, it’s like I can have a sexual experience with someone I don’t have an emotional connection with and it’s fun. It’s a good appetizer. It’s delicious! But I don’t walk away from that experience feeling satisfied, like, “Wow. That was great.” For people that I have deeply emotional connections with and we can cuddle and talk afterwards, and all of that, it just feels like such a more fulfilling experience. So, yeah. I think for me, just the fact that I’m even getting the chance to figure this out has been the most incredible feeling for myself. Does that answer your question?
Leanne: Yeah, yeah, no, completely. I mean, for me, I just remember – even though I wasn’t raised very religious – my parents had fairly conservative values when it came to sex. They were each other’s first kiss and all of that. And so, you know, my mum was always like, “You shouldn’t have sex with someone unless you’ve already got an emotional bond, because sex is meaningful, and it has to be tied to love for it to be good,” or something. So I very much internalized that belief, and so with my first boyfriend – when I was sixteen – I waited nine entire months before we had sex! Which was a big deal for me at the time. Looking back, I’m like - like I have sex on the first date now. I can’t believe I waited nine months back then! Because I really wanted to “be sure”, or whatever.
And what ended up happening – and this has nothing to do with my sexuality – what ended up happening that tarnished that whole belief for me – because I was so focused on finding “the one” that I would have sex with, and it would be so meaningful and beautiful and I wouldn’t regret it, or whatever. I found out about two months after the fact that prior to the first time we had sex – so we had both lost our virginities to each other – he cheated on me two weeks before we had sex for the first time, and I had no idea. So that definitely tarnished the experience for me, knowing that I shared such a vulnerable moment with my partner at the time, and he had been lying to my face for two weeks. And he continued to keep that up for three months. He confessed the truth to me about three months later, but the damage had been done. So I was just like, oh my god. (laughs)
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. You had internalized that it was this special thing.
Leanne: Yeah, yeah, and it is a vulnerable moment, right? Because the first time, it can be - it’s invasive if you’re a vulva owner. And it can be painful. And it’s massively anxiety-inducing. You can bleed. I think it’s a much bigger deal for someone with a vulva than for someone with a penis, because there’s so many more factors involved in the experience. So, yeah, I wanted it to be special. So to find out after the fact that he’d been lying to me? I think I was just, well, fuck that. (laughs)
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. Why did I wait for this?
Leanne: Yeah. Why did I wait for this? And I still have fond memories of my first time, because, apart from all that contextual stuff, it was embarrassing, it was hilarious, it was vulnerable, and it was nice. It’s fine. It is what it is. But then it definitely showed to me that sex shouldn’t be as big a deal as I make it out to be.
@puritytopolyamory: I think this conversation bodes well to – ironically – whether or not you support sex workers and stuff. Because I think that if you put such emphasis on how special intimacy is in that way, it would be hard for you to wrap your head around people who just choose to just have sex, or casual sex, sex workers, people who enjoy casual sex, all of those. If you think that you’re giving away a part of yourself, or you think you have some weird soul-tie to a person? Because this is really what people think! If you have – I guess it’s just PIV – you are giving a part of yourself away. Of course that would be hard, to wrap your head around people who just look at sex as an activity, just like any other activity we can be doing with our bodies.
Leanne: Yeah, no, absolutely. You bring up such a good point. Because now I’ve evolved to a point where sex is just like a hobby to me at this point – genuinely. I have fun with it. I like doing it with my friends. It’s a very casual thing. It’s a way I express affection for people. I don’t think I have a close friend who I haven’t had some kind of sexual relations with. Whether we’ve ended up being sexually compatible or not, there’s probably been some form of experimentation there. And I like it. I enjoy it. I think it’s self-care. Yeah. So, you know, it’s wild to me that just six years ago, or whatever, I was on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I was like, “It needs to be special. It needs to be in the context of a committed, loving relationship,” or whatever. And now I’m just like… meh!
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah, totally, totally. I’m there, too, I definitely took that journey as well.
Leanne: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So, I would love to hear a little bit more about the deconstructing process. Because I think that when followers come to me and clients come to me talking about unlearning mononormativity and purity culture, or whatever else, I think there’s a lot of, “Logically, I know this belief is harmful and it’s not really serving me, but I don’t quite know how to internalize the new belief.” And I was wondering if you had a particular process for unlearning all this stuff that you grew up with, or whether it was just something that came with time. Could you say more on that?
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah, I think mostly it just comes with time. It’s a little piece-by-piece unravelling of everything that you sort of believed before. I mean, deconstructing your faith looks very similar – parallel paths – to deconstructing mononormativity as well. So you can’t just go from being in a monogamous relationship where you think that person’s your soulmate, and then the next day want to be in a polyamorous relationship. These things happen over time. So I think I personally would like to develop a little more resources around the purity-to-polyamory pipeline.
Leanne: Yes! Very alliterative: PPP.
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. (laughs) And I think that it looks different for a lot of people, but it can be so overwhelming, because you’re basically just unraveling all these parts of your life at the same time. Or, often, obviously, a lot of people go deconstruction and then they’re like, “Wait. Why am I still in this relationship structure that I got into while I was a Christian, and nothing makes sense anymore? Why would I stay in this kind of relationship structure, you know?” So yeah – it just is sort of an unravelling of all of it piece-by-piece. I think the best thing to do is for people to know that this is a really really big process. Going from monogamy to polyamory is huge. It is a fucking turn your world upside down. But if you’re coming from that religious background as well? It’s just another added extra layer of unlearning everything you knew.
Leanne: Yeah, and like you said, there are many parallels. In both purity culture and mononormativity there is the idea of “the one true love”, right? There’s the whole idea of – I guess the idea that things like sex and love and affection or whatever are kind of scarce, and you have to save it for someone. I think maybe that isn’t so much the case in mononormativity, but there is still the idea that you’re not supposed to be with other people, because you need to to save that sort of thing and make it “special” for your partner. I don’t know. What are the parallels? You’d probably be able to answer this better than me. Those are the two that come up for me.
@puritytopolyamory: So here’s one: Jealousy. So we are taught as Christians that God is a jealous God.
Leanne: Oh, okay.
@puritytopolyamory: That he’s jealous for us. I don’t even really understand what that’s supposed to mean for us. But just that he’s jealous for our love and he wants our love.
Leanne: Oh.
@puritytopolyamory: And then you move into: well, the church is the “bride of Christ”. That’s in the Bible. So, basically, the idea that toxic masculinity is so prevalent in the Christian church. And then on top of it, it’s literally teaching men to be jealous and to have these traits of possession over your spouse. So… yeah. I mean, can you imagine? Going from monogamy to polyamory, you’re already having to really let go, give freedom to your spouse, and acknowledge that they are their own individual. And deal with your jealousy, and look at jealousy as something like a reflection tool, you know? Instead of being like, “Well, it’s a good thing,” because it’s literally taught that it’s a good thing, that our God is jealous for us, or whatever. So, that’s another thing that I think comes up often, is just majorly deconstructing toxic masculinity ideas.
Leanne: Yeah, yeah. I think in mononormativity as well. Jealousy is seen as good, you know? It’s seen as romantic even – it’s seen as cute if your partner is jealous. And while a little bit of jealousy is probably fine, that can be taken to very extreme lengths. I see prank TikToks all the time on straight TikTok where people are trying to make their partners jealous and trying to get a reaction out of them for fun. And it’s just like, why would you do that? And if they don’t get jealous, then they get angry. I remember watching a TikTok where this guy, his girlfriend was doing his makeup in the bathroom or whatever. And he came over and was like, “Hey – I’m going out with Kelsey tonight.” And he kind of waited, expecting her to be like, “Who’s Kelsey?!? Who are you spending time with?” Or whatever. But his girlfriend was like, “Okay. Have fun!” And he proceeded to throw a fit. He literally proceeded to just be like, “Why aren’t you jealous?!” Kind of expecting her to have more of a moment of possessiveness, or whatever, and being angry that she wasn’t upset. I think that’s kind of when things get a bit fucked.
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah, totally. And to have us be told that God is that way? That’s what we’re aspiring to be like, Jesus or whatever? It’s a lot.
Leanne: Yeah, this omnipotent, omniscient, all-powerful God, who is so good and perfect, but is jealous. [laughs]
@puritytopolyamory: I know! It’s so weird to me now. I’m just like, oh wow. It’s definitely a lot of undoing all of that conditioning that we were subject to.
Leanne: Yeah. For sure.
Well, I think you’re doing some great work on your platform. So I would love for more people to know where to check you out. So where can people find you on social media?
@puritytopolyamory: Sure. I am on Instagram: @puritytopolyamory. I’m on Twitter. I’m pretty sure my Twitter is @puritytopolyam because I could not fit it all in.
Leanne: Yeah. Fifteen characters and all.
@puritytopolyamory: Yeah. And I have a podcast as well, called Purity to Polyamory. I have eight episodes out now. I host mostly guests that have a religious background and are now walking into non-monogamy, polyamory. I did have Jessica Fern on during the first season [Episode 4; October 19, 2021], which was a really awesome episode, where we talked about this specific pipeline: purity to polyamory. And how she’s seen people be affected by it, which was a great episode, so if you want to check that out. But, yeah. That’s about it.
Leanne: Yeah. Alright, thank you so much. And thank you listeners for listening to the end. Thank you!
@puritytopolyamory: Thanks, Leanne!
Leanne: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Happy Polydays series. If you’d like to support my work, consider becoming a Patreon subscriber at patreon.com/polyphiliablog. You can also follow me at @polyphiliablog on Instagram, Tiktok, Facebook, and Twitter, buy my polyamory merch at polyphiliashop.redbubble.com, or book a peer support session with me on my website polyphilia.blog. Until next time!