Demisexual vs. Megasexual with @remodeledlove

My guest Jes (@remodeledlove) is demisexual: she doesn't experience sexual attraction except with an existing romantic/emotional connection. I (@polyphiliablog), meanwhile, am megasexual: I don't experience romantic/emotional attraction except with an existing sexual connection. We discuss:

- Jes’ identity as a #DemisexualSlut

- Why I prefer to have sex on the first date

- Meeting up on the first date vs texting for months before meeting up

- Why certain “nice guys” may interpret someone’s demisexuality as a challenge

- The difference between sexual chemistry, skill, and attraction

and much more.

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transcribed by Alon Birman and Jenna Cushing-Leubner

Leanne: Welcome to Happy Polydays, a series of intimate conversations about polyamory, sexuality, identity, and relationships, hosted by me – Leanne Yau of the Poly Philia blog.

Leanne: Hello and welcome to day 1 of the Happy Polydays series. Today I’m speaking with Jessica Daylover of @remodeledlove, who is a polyamorous content creator, comedian, podcaster and mother of two. Jess identifies as demisexual, whereas I identify as megasexual and we’ll be discussing our approaches to dating, sex and attraction from opposite ends of the spectrum.

Leanne: To begin, Jess, do you want to take the wheel and tell our folks about how and why we decided to have this conversation? And also what demisexuality is?

Jessica: Yes, I always want to take the wheel. So, the way that this idea for this chat came about is because – Oh, I want to start with my identity, always. I’m a 36-year-old queer cisgendered polyamorous woman in a legal cishet marriage, which I feel is a huge privilege and I always want people to know that the wisdom that I translate comes from a very privileged place. We’ve been polyamorous for 8 years, married for 12.

My whole life I’ve been a very sexual person, but that sexuality has been very much inside of me, not something that I’ve always been able to fully express outward. Though when I was younger, I was definitely a lot – I would say I would use the word free-er – then I am now. Come to think of it, I’ve really gotten more demisexual with age. I was always aware that I was more sexual than my friends. I was definitely the friend at slumber parties getting all the other girls to have a make-out party and whatnot. My dating journey has been a very confusing journey, because my greatest dream in my life is to be a tantric sex goddess. I’m a Sagittarius, my Venus is in Scorpio though, and I want to be this fully embodied sexual woman. I struggle with sex, to be honest with you. I struggle to let partners give me orgasms. I would love to be somebody who can like female ejaculate. I want to be this totally embodied sex goddess, but it’s really hard for me. I experience a lot of resistance. Inside of me is this very slutty very sexual person; but on the outside, I’m this demisexual. And I didn’t know I was a demisexual until last year. So, in episode 7 season 1 of our podcast, I was interviewing my meta – one of Joe’s long-distance partners, and they were describing their demisexuality. Traditionally the culture describes a demisexual as someone who cannot have experience sexual attraction without first having an emotional attraction and usually that emotional attraction takes time to build.

Leanne: Yep.

Jessica: You’ll hear a lot of demisexuals joking about how they just fall in love with their friends and wish they can just have sex with their friends because there is so much emotional connection there. But my meta defined their “deminess” as: there is this switch inside of them of sexual attraction, and sometimes that switch is on and sometimes that switch is off, and they are not in control of their switch. And that is their demisexuality. And that can be very frustrating, because sometimes they are in bed with somebody kissing and there is an emotional connection there and they are desperately wanting that attraction – that switch to turn on – and it’s just not turning on and they are not in control of the switch, and I was like, that sounds like me. If you listen to the episode, you literally hear the idea plant in my mind. I’m like, wow, that, that’s me. And I’ve always really admired my megasexual friends. Of course, I didn’t know that word at the time. So, about a month later, I realized I am a demisexual, but it really took me a minute to realize it. One, because the culture doesn’t teach us this when we are sitting in sex ed classes in shitty American high schools. They’re not talking about demisexuality, asexuality, aro- stuff. They’re just not talking about any of that.

So that’s one reason I didn’t know who I was. But also, when you hear demisexuality is on the ace spectrum I’m thinking, well that can’t be me because I’m the biggest slut. Because, when my switch is on, I am so sexual. I have always been more sexual than my partners and had the higher libido. I’ve had a lot of rejection sensitivity because most of my partners have been like, “woah – you’re too sexual”. And so I’ve had a lot of “I’m too sexual” internalized shame, feeling like I’m having to read my partner, because I don’t want to get rejected, always having to feel into the energy of “is it appropriate to initiate sex right now?” So that’s a whole other thing. And so, on the inside, I feel like this slut and because of that I feel like I can’t be a demisexual.

So what I did with that was I created this identity: the demisexual-slut. It breaks down the binary of “well, if you’re demisexual, you’re this and you’re not that” and what sexuality is in general. And it’s playing with this paradox. Which, my whole life is a paradox, right?  I’m an enneagram 8, which is the Challenger. I love to dismantle systems. But I’m also a people pleaser, and I want everyone to like me. So I feel like this demisexual slut plays into this whole enigma that is Jess. And so, I started to pursue this identity as a demisexual slut. And it’s made the dating experience – especially the online modern dating app – as a queer, polyamorous woman, dating experience has honestly been a shitshow for me.

I tend to manifest the same experience over and over again. And because Remodeled Love, my page, is like a diary of mine – I’m constantly making content about what I’m learning, the patterns that I’m repeating and what I’m trying to break out of. And so, I have been trying to find this way to break out of the comfort zone of my demisexuality and embrace that slut. But what’s not working for me is I still have to be a demisexual and I have to embrace it in a way. And I’ve been trying to understand non-demisexual mentality. So I went to the content creator chat that we have together, and I said, “Who in here is the opposite of me?” And you said, “That would be me. I’m a megasexual.” Now you take it away of what that is.

6:17 min

Leanne: Thank you! Yeah, that leads in really nicely. Just to be clear, megasexual is not a sexual orientation kind of label in the same way that being demisexual, asexual, bisexual is. I would say it’s kind of more of a general descriptor for how I relate to people, in the same way that terms like ‘holosexual’ or ‘sapiosexual’ or ‘lumbersexual’ is, you know? It’s not a formal sexual orientation. And the meaning of megasexuality is literally the opposite of demisexuality. So, where demisexual is you can’t develop sexual attraction, unless you have an existing emotional slash romantic connection, for megasexuals, it’s the opposite. You cannot develop a romantic and emotional attraction unless you already have an existing sexual connection. So you and I are literally on the opposite ends of this spectrum.

This group chat that we have, there’s thirty of us in it. We share a fair bit about our dating lives. Sometimes it’s collaboration, sometimes it’s just us memeing in the chat, and it’s great. My dating life and Jess’ dating life is complete polar opposites, to the point where sometimes I see stuff that you put in the chat, Jess, and I’m like, “Wow. I literally could not relate less!” And it’s just honestly so bizarre. So, yeah. You pitched the idea of us having a conversation about how we navigate the dating world to see if there’s anything we can learn from each other, basically. You want to step out of your comfort zone, and this is the first of a series of Lives that I’m doing with other non-monogamous content creators, just talking about polyamory and anything related to that – loosely or not. So, yeah. Super psyched to be kicking this off with what I’m sure will be a very interesting conversation.

8:13 min

So, Jess – I know that you have a ton of questions prepared for me. And I’m just going to sit here and take it and see what minds we can implode today!

Jessica: Okay! So the first time my mind imploded… I was like, “who here’s the opposite of me?” and you were like, “That would be me,” and you described your dating life and your process around dating, and that’s when my little demi-mind imploded. But my slut was like…

Okay. Shout out to all the demisexuals who love their demisexuality. I hate mine. My demisexuality feels like a cage that is keeping my slut imprisoned, and I don’t like it. So when you talk about your life, I just want to be a megasexual. My inner slut is at war with my demisexuality. So, my demisexuality wants a connection before I can sleep with someone, but my slut is ready to sleep with them right away. So my inner slut crafts this connection. And she just drafts it up and hands it to my demisexuality – and it’s a total lie. And once my ego is like, “oh, there’s a connection here – look at this beautiful connection!” (It’s usually very spiritual for me, too.) I’m like, “Oh – I healed a wound and the universe allowed me to attract this new partner!” – and it’s always this really intense connection. It keeps me from seeing red flags and things like that. So I’m moving fast – faster than my demisexual can suss out bad connections with. So I’m not a good example of either a slut or a demisexual, to be honest with you. I think that’s why I’m failing so hard.

And also, we’re both neurodivergent. And the way you approach dating, I think it’s very neurodivergent friendly, which I also love. So you’re talking about dating, and you’re like, “Well, I need to sleep with someone on our first date – assuming there’s an attraction there,” which you said you can feel within the first three minutes of seeing someone. Because you’re like, well, I need to know if this is worth pursuing. I need to know if we have sexual chemistry, so I can know it’s worth it to even build emotional connection. And I was like – wait a minute. But how? How do you have sexual chemistry with somebody that you just met? Please explain.

Leanne: Okay, so I’m going to preface this and say that it’s not like I see someone and immediately am like, “Yes. I would have sex with you on sight.” There is some level of – I want to suss you out as a person, and I think there’s also a small part of me that’s like, what if you’re really hot but you turn out to be an asshole, and I later find out and am like, “You don’t deserve to be in me!” or something? So there’s a small part that’s like, “Do you deserve to have sex with me?” So I need to figure out what kind of person you are. But also, obviously there’s a safety element. I don’t know how much of that is related to me being a woman and having to navigate the world as a woman and having to be more conscious of my personal safety in a way that I feel like being a man, you wouldn’t have to. So, yeah. It’s not like I see someone and I’m like: “I’m going to hook up with you” on sight. I’ve done one night stands and that actually was not for me at all. So that’s the first thing that I would preface that with.

But, you know, when I go on a date with someone, usually upon seeing them, I’ll be able to figure out, okay, could I see myself potentially having sex with this person? Do I find them physically attractive? Are they my type? Upon seeing them, it’ll be like: Yes or No. And if it’s a yes, then all I need is further conversation to verify that this person is safe and funny and gets along with me and vibes. And after that, I’m like, cool! Yeah, let’s do it. If it’s a no, most of the time it’s going to stay a no. But there have been some situations where somebody’s personality has won me over so much that, over the course of the hour or two that we talk that, I’m like, “Actually, you’re great. Let’s bang.” (laughs) So that’s kind of my process: I see someone and I’m able to tell if I’m going to want to have sex with them, and then after that it’s just about verifying that they are a safe person to have sex with.

Jessica: So there’s an energy. You’re feeling into an energy?

Leanne: Yeah, yeah. You know, obviously there’s going to be a superficial how attractive they are. And in terms of the verification process on the day, it’s going to be energy – vibe. Do we have a rapport? Do they talk passionately about their interests?

Jessica: Yes. Please.

Leanne: How much stuff do we have in common? Do they have interesting things that I can learn about? Actually, we don’t even have to have a huge amount in common. As long as someone can talk about their interests in a passionate way, and I feel like there’s stuff that gaining novelty in the connection, then I’ll be like, yeah. This is great. We’re vibing. And that’s basically it for me.

So it’s really important to me to have sex on the first date with someone. Because my absolute worst nightmare is going on multiple dates with someone, really vibing, having good chemistry, having good rapport – and then we get to the bedroom, and there’s just no spark at all. That would be my worst nightmare, because I’d be like, wow. We built up so much expectation and now I’ve wasted my time. Because that’s what it feels to me. If I’m going to be investing in a long-term relationship with someone, sex is fairly high on my priority list, and I have no shame in admitting that. In fact, my journey into non-monogamy, one of the big reasons was sex. While obviously polyamory and non-monogomy isn’t all about sex, it is a very big part of it for me. And I frequently talk about how there’s a lot of weird slut-shaming in the polyamorous community, where people are like, “It’s not about the sex,” and therefore shaming anyone who’s even remotely sexual, who enjoys orgies or threesomes or is really kinky or whatever. So I push back against that. I embrace my sluttiness. There’s nothing wrong with being really slutty and polyamorous. Sex is a very big part of how I love people, and while I can have sex without love, to be honest, I would really struggle to love someone without sex.

So that’s kind of my rationale. When it comes to dating, sex is so important to me that I need to find out from date one whether we’re sexually compatible. Because if I don’t know whether we’re sexually compatible, I’m not going to feel comfortable investing emotionally or romantically. It’s going to feel risky to me. It’s going to feel wrong to me. So I want to have sex with someone on the first date. And then after that, I’ll be like: okay. We’ve got that down. So now we can start building the other stuff.

Jessica: Ok, my demi-brain is imploding! So first of all, to clarify – you are a megasexual, but you’re not into hookups, and you’re not into hookup culture and one night stand culture. Not that all megasexuals are like you – I’m just noting that you are trying to build consistent relationships.

Leanne: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. In my memory, there has only been two times where I’ve gone out and met up with someone with the specific intention of never seeing them again. I’ve only done that twice. And I didn’t enjoy it both times.

Jessica: So some things we have in common are I’m also looking for connection. I also want to see can you talk passionately about things? Are you interesting? Can we have conversation? Can you make me laugh? So I’m looking for those things as well. And I think that’s why in the past I have been able to move at a speed most demisexuals are like, “Woah. That takes me weeks to build.” But for me, it comes back to the switch. The switch is either on or it’s off. If the switch comes on on the first date, I’m totally down to bone.

But a lot of that is probably kind of U-Hauly energy. So, for you, you’re just in megasexual groundedness. For me, if I’m having sex early on and my switch is on, I’m probably in a little bit of U-Haul story, where it’s moving really fast, I have now put too much meaning on the connection. It’s intense. I say “U-Haul” meaning like, I’ve just recently learned that that whole trope around lesbian U-Haul can be a toxic thing. And I think that I do that a lot. That’s that war between my inner slut and my demisexual – creating a lot of story around connection, so I can get to it right away. Whereas I would like to get to the point where I’m like: “Is my switch on? Or is it off?” All the time. Okay. Let’s engage in sex! And not create a lot of meaning or story around it, and see if I can just fucking chill and enjoy the closest thing I’ll ever get to casual relationships.

So that’s some things that we have in common. Where we’re different is that you are like, “Well, I need sex. It’s the most important thing in a relationship with me, and I wouldn’t want to have one without it.” And I would have identified as that when I was younger – because I’m so sexual on the inside – only to be now thirty-six in a marriage that is very healthy, but my switch is not on in this marriage. So we have a non-sexual/asexual marriage. And for me, I’m fine. Because I’m polyamorous, I can go out and get it elsewhere. Now, for me, would I have designed a world in which I’m having the best sex in my nesting/anchor partnership? Yes. But historically for me, I tend to have the best sexual chemistry with people that I actually probably could never nest with or have kids with, or be an anchor partner with. 

Leanne: Interesting.

Jessica: Yeah. So, for me, I see my anchor partner – my husband – as we are so aligned in every other category of the relationship that I think it’s an outlier. I think it’s unheard of – the amount of chemistry we have emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, politically, artistically. We’re one hundred percent aligned on all of that. I’m like – I’m never going to find that. That’s who I want to be married to. It’s almost just like I’ve surrendered to what is here. I’ve learned that, oh, sex isn’t as important to me as I thought it was. That said, I would really like to find a consistent sexual relationship where I’m having lots of sex.

I also wonder if my demisexuality is keeping me from being probably a sex addict. Because when my switch is on with someone, I don’t feel in control. That becomes very, “That’s what I want to do.” I lose balance in other areas of my life. So I use it like an addiction that I want to feed, because I feel so sexual and I love the connection so much. So I do think that there’s a role that my demisexuality is playing in keeping me more balanced.

19:07 min 

Leanne: Yeah. And I wonder if there’s an element of neurodivergent hyperfocus in that as well. It’s so difficult to come by sexual connection for you that when you do have one, you latch onto it, because there’s this element of scarcity.

Jessica: Yes. That was huge for me a couple of weeks ago in DMs where you were like, “Oh, well there’s probably a part of you in scarcity mindset when you’re afraid to see a red flag and lose a connection, because you’ve spent time investing in it”. And I was like, “Wow.” I’m not aware that I’m in scarcity mindset, but you were dead on. That was something that really affected me that you said, and I’ve been chewing on since then. When I am trying not to see a red flag, or I’m sunk cost fallacy? It’s kind of like that. So as a demisexual, I have some cost sunk into a connection, time…

And previously, I’ve spent weeks chatting with people before I would meet up with them. Because I’m trying to establish a chemistry. Can this person talk about interesting things? Because my hell (laughs) is going on a first date with someone who cannot carry a conversation. So I need to be sure – when I walk into a first date, I want to be really excited to see them, and the only way I’ve been able to do that in the past is to spend all this time creating this chemistry. And you were like, oh my god, no. I just want to meet.

Leanne: Yeah, and also, honestly, I’ve had situations where I really vibed with someone over text, and then in person, they were completely different. I think it’s because of those experiences that – when you’re behind a screen and you can draft your responses, you can be really flirty. You can be a different version of yourself, really. But then I’ve encountered this so many times now, where we vibe so well over text and then we meet up in person and they are so shy and socially anxious, and the vibe is dead. Completely dead. And I’m like, “Are you even the same person that I’ve been talking to for the past couple of days?” Which is so wild to me. So I don’t set myself up for disappointment anymore. Because, at the end of the day, if I’m going to be building connection with someone, it’s going to be in person. So I don’t want the foundation of that relationship to be built over text. Because I don’t want that to be the base for how we connect with each other and how we relate with each other. But I see where you’re coming from, Jess, in terms of it’s the worst to go on a date with someone who doesn’t know how to carry a conversation. I one hundred percent feel that. But also, I’m fairly confident in my ability to carry the conversation for them, if they’re really unresponsive. (laughs) I shamelessly love the sound of my own voice, so if they won’t talk, then I will. I’ll tell them stories, they’ll laugh, and I’ll feel good about myself. (laughs)

So it’s not a disaster for me if I go on a date with someone who is just not saying much, because we’ll go for a drink, I’ll try and tease some information out of them, and then at the end of it I’ll be like, “Look, I just don’t think this is going anywhere. I’m not really feeling a spark. Let’s just call it a night.” That’s why I don’t need to have a ton of conversation with someone before going on a date, because when I go on a date, I go into it with no expectations. Obviously, I’m excited for the date. I’m excited to see what the person is like. But I’m not expecting much from it, in the same way that I think you are. That’s the road test. I go on a date, and I’m like, “Okay. Well, we’ll see how things go. Worst case scenario, I get to try out my best jokes and see if they work, and tell my stories a slightly different way and see if that works a different way.” (laughs) So it’s no loss to me. It’s no loss to me.

I also understand that – because you’re a mom. I’m twenty-three, I’m not married, I don’t have kids. I have way more free time than you do. So I know you don’t have the same amount of time to spend just going out on dates with people who you might not even vibe with, because you’ve got kids to look after. I think that’s another factor. I can go on six dates in a week and it’s fine. But obviously, you can’t do the same thing.

22:57 min

Jessica: No. This is one area where I do think I can push myself out of my comfort zone. And I’m starting to. I’m back on, “I’m going to get on apps!”, which is always a phase for me.

Leanne: Same.

Jessica: Totally. And made some connections, and this is the first time I’m meeting up within the first few days – and I’m not really engaging in that much conversations. It’s like I just kind of made the switch. I don’t even feel the desire to – I’m just like: I’ll see you at coffee. And honestly, I do have that skill to carry conversations. It comes from a history in live radio, where I had to interview people who may have been an expert in what they did, but they couldn’t necessarily translate it into an interview. So I actually can pull it out.

So as you were talking, I was like… I really do have that skill. So why am I so afraid of it? It’s because I am not able to do what you said you do at the end of the date, which was, “I’m not feeling a vibe here. It was nice to meet you. Let’s call it a night.” When I’m in front of someone, I’m in people pleaser. And I am more worried about what they are thinking of me than what I am thinking of them. And I need to be in my body to feel, “Am I attracted? Is there a connection here?” When I am in full people-pleaser, I’m out of my body. Because I am empathetically trying to connect with them and feel, “Who do they want me to be?” So I’m not in my body. So I can’t even feel what I’m feeling. And it’s really gross.

I think I want to create connections ahead of time via text, because then – in theory – I can just be excited about the date. And can be – in theory – excited to grow the connection more. And I won’t be looking at something that I have to then turn down, because we will have already established that we like each other and this is just the first date that’s going to be the first of many, where we’re already feeling that vibe. Historically, I’ve been pretty dead on. Granted, a lot of those turned out to be not very sustainable relationships. So a lot of those might be a narcissist mirroring me, and I didn’t pick up on it. Or maybe they were just destined to be short-lived. A lot of them were trauma bonds because once I do make a connection, I make it way too quickly for a demisexual. I think that should be the first sign that there’s a trauma bond there. I’m connecting way too quickly for a demisexual.

It was only recently that I had my first – we had great text chemistry and then in front of them, I was repulsed or really turned off. So that was kind of a wake-up call. I was like, “Oh! This is what everyone else is always talking about, about why they meet up right away.” So, I’m really curious how it’s going to go. I’m really excited to just – I think not having expectations is huge. I think, as a demisexual in the dating world, I think I’ve talked to a lot of healthy demisexuals who come in with no expectations, and they’re more suspicious. I come in like a puppy. I think I lack the discipline. I’m just a hopeful romantic that really wants to fall in love and really wants to have great sex. I’m really looking for it there, and I’m not as open to – because I’m in scarcity mindset – I’m not as open to being like, “You know, this isn’t it”. I really need to be willing to walk away. So, I have a first date tomorrow. I had two first dates tomorrow, but as you know, one got cancelled, because he was just pushing a boundary too hard, trying to send me nudes and trying to sext, when we hadn’t even met. And I was like, “Okay, am I too demi for this person?” And then you chimed in and were like, “I’m a megasexual and I don’t even do that shit.”

Leanne: Yeah. Honestly, I find it so gross when people get really sexual with me immediately, over text. I’m like… no. You have cute pictures, but I haven’t seen you in person. I don’t know anything about you. I’m not going to sext with you. I think you needed the reality check in that moment when you posted that in your story and were like, “Am I crazy? Am I just demi? What is this?” And I was like, “No. I would not be down for this either. This guy is being super gross. You do not need to tolerate that.” And even if I didn’t find it gross, it’s your boundary. And he repeatedly crossed it. So it was just like, oh my fucking god. (laughs)

Jessica: And shout out to the people who are into that. I do have a lot of friends who are into exactly that. That is what turns them on. They just get on these apps, and it’s very kind of Grindr culture or Scruff or a gay male app – and it is valid. It is a valid sexuality. I don’t want to shame it. But it was interesting for fellow demisexuals to be like, “Wow Jess. I really resonate with this.” But also for other non-demis to be like, “That’s not ok with me either.” It’s its own world, and it requires consent. Anyway. I’m excited to be present on the date, to be like: Am I into this? Do I want to go further?

You also have this theory that men in particular are seeing my demisexuality as a challenge.

Leanne: Yeah. And I mean, this is a whole thing, right? I think the entire “nice guy” trope of, “Oh, if I just pay enough money for drinks and say all the right things, then I should be rewarded with sex.” I think, particularly if you’re saying that you’re demisexual and putting that out front – I feel that some guys are going to conceptualize it as a game. Like, “Ooh, there’s this mystery thing that’s hiding behind this veil and I need to get through all the levels to get to the treasure” – the “treasure” being sex with you. It’s gross! Obviously. I think that it just pushes them into that mentality, when they’re like, “This is not something that she just does for anyone, so if I get it, then that must say something about me and how special I am.” At least, if I were to put myself into some asshole’s shoes, I think that’s how they would think.

Jessica: You’re dead on. And Roy of @openrelating on Instagram said the same thing before he even read my story where I said that you had this theory, he messaged the same thing. He’s like, “It’s based in toxic masculinity that they see it as a challenge.” So do you think I should take “demisexual” off on my profile, and almost hold it as this secret thing? Where I just say I’m not interested in connecting and chatting like that and see if they listen to the boundary, and not explaining it?

Leanne: I think that most people generally don’t get super sexual over text from the start anyway. Like, I don’t. If people are trying to sext me without having met me, I block them. So, I don’t necessarily feel that it’s something you need to put in your profile.

Jessica: No. It’s just interesting that I’ve been approaching it completely differently. I’ve been thinking of it as I’m giving someone information about how to try to date me. When in reality, it’s probably giving the wrong people a playbook.

Leanne: Yeah. I think, unfortunately, that might be the case. Obviously, I think it’s something you should disclose. It’s just not something that I would put in the profile, because of the way people are going to conceptualize it. If you put “demisexual”, you’re like, “I’m really slutty once we start vibing and you get to know me,” then people are going to be like, “Oh! I’m going to try and see at what point the switch happens!” And they’re going to try and push that boundary.

It’s not like everyone starts sexting from the start, right? I would hazard a guess that most people – particularly most women – are probably not going to be into sexting from the beginning. So you wouldn’t be massively different from most other people on the app. So if you start talking with someone and they get really sexual with you right away, then block. That’s not for you. If they actually try and engage in conversation and stuff like that, then later on, bring in the fact that you’re demisexual. By then, you’ll already know that they’re probably going to be safe about it.

Jessica: Yeah. I think you’re totally right. I’m totally experiencing this excitement right now to completely change up how I approach the dating world – and be a scientist about it. Reflect. Try things. Not be attached to anything. But I’m almost feeling this call right now to play it closer to the vest, as they say. Because I think to communicate to people, “Oh, I’m also this slut,” because I don’t want to be written off if I’m talking to a megasexual or an allosexual of any kind – like, “Oh, well I don’t want to date this demisexual, because I’m looking for a great sexual connection.” Because I’m like, “Oh, me too.” But it just – I talk a lot about how my demisexuality feels like a cage, first of all, and then outside the cage is a wall, and there’s a switch also inside of me. So there’s a switch and a cage and a wall. The way to get the switch on is to stimulate my mind. That’s kind of the sapiosexual part of it. And the way to get the wall to melt is to not try to get the wall to melt, to be honest. So I have a lot of dudes be like, “You’re complicated.” Which should just be an automatic fuck you. But…

Leanne: Yeah. I think the thing of saying demisexual and talking about this switch is that people are going to keep trying to nudge that switch, and it’s going to be the focus. Whereas if you’re just like, “If you’re getting to know me, I really like conversations about X,Y,Z,” and give people a lead on that. Like, “Don’t sext me from the beginning, please.” Then the guys who read that are going to do that, rather than focusing on, “Ooh! When is she going to get sexual?” You know?

Jessica: Yeah. So, completely changing directions here. So you are on a first date. You are vibing. You are like, yes. We’re going to fuck. Yes. I’m going to suss out, do we have sexual chemistry? So that I know whether or not it’s worth pursuing this relationship further? Is the sex at some level awkward because it’s the first time and you don’t really know the person?

Leanne: No. It’s not awkward at all.

Jessica: (laughs) I just - because even for my non-demi friends, I feel like a lot of us have this like, “Oh… sex is always awkward the first couple of times, until you get to know each other’s bodies.” It’s always for me, sex four or five where I’m like, “Okay! Now we’re vibing!” So now I’m trying to combine first sex with also we just met…. And my brain short circuits. I don’t get it. Like how? How is it not awkward? Explain it to me!

Leanne: It’s just like, okay. We’ve had a chat. I’ve learned a little about your mind. And now that we’re getting it on in the bedroom, I’m learning a bit about your body. And those are separate things.

I think it’s probably because I’ve had a lot of casual sex. So at this point, it doesn’t take me that much time to figure out what someone likes. What I find is that for people who have been in multiple long-term relationships – or just the one long-term relationship – they only know how to do sex one certain way. Because that’s the way that their partner likes it. And then they do it on me, and I’m like, “uhhhh…” (laughs) Whereas the people who have a lot of casual sex and frequently are experiencing different bodies, and trying different techniques, and learning new things with different people – they’re much more adaptable. And they’re much more versatile. So I always find it to be –

I’m going to amend my earlier statement, and say that it is awkward if I’m sleeping with someone who has just come out of a really long relationship, and they are stubborn as hell and are not listening to what I’m trying to tell them about what I want, and they’re just trying to do everything that their ex really enjoyed. But if I’m sleeping with someone who also is like me and has had a lot of sexual partners – or at least has had enough to know that different people like different things, and you need to engage and listen to what they’re saying, what noises they’re making, how their body is responding – then there is synergy. We’re listening to each other, listening to what our bodies are saying, and it’s great. (laughs) So that’s kind of where the difference is.

Jessica: What is your success rate – not that sex is about orgasms, let’s get off the sex escalator – but you have mentioned before that you orgasm easily, frequently. What is your orgasm relationship with new partners?

Leanne: I’m fairly easy to please, so it’s not difficult. So I would say that, you know, the last couple sexual partners I’ve had – the first time we had sex, I orgasm. It’s not difficult for me. And if someone’s doing it wrong, then I will sit them down and tell them what I like, until they do it right! (laughs) And then I’ll have it.

Jessica: That’s my demi-ness. I can’t let the pleasure in if I am not feeling special. Honestly, I do feel like a really dope person. I think I’m cute. I think I’m smart. I think I’m funny. I think I’m talented. And I also have a praise kink. So there’s some worship that I’m looking for. There is a – I want to know that that person knows who they have in bed with them. If I feel like I could just be anyone, if I feel that casual sex-ness, where I might as well be one of those pocket-pussy things, or whatever? (Which is totally fine. No judgement on people who like that.) But for me, I need to feel like this person is really into me. I think that is the core of my demi-ness. I don’t like feeling like I could just be anyone. That it was a numbers game. That you went up to five other women before me at this bar and I’m just the one who happened to say yes. It has to feel like you know that I’m special and you’re going to treat me as such in the bedroom. And then I have so many issues around letting pleasure in, and if I feel like you do not know who I am, therefore I feel like I can not open up my body. Or I like you too much, (laughs) and now I’m in performative mode, and I can’t let the pleasure in. That’s a whole other fucking episode.

This is really showing where I’m at on the ace-spectrum. I’m like, “Man. I’m definitely on that spectrum.” So, someone that you just met – their body doesn’t gross you out?

Leanne: (laughs) You know… if they’ve washed?

Jessica: I just… this is my….

Leanne: It’s fine? 

Jessica: I mean… I’m like…. Ew! Genitals. Blech! Unless I’m like fucking in love with you. Then I want like, “Sit on my face and never get off.” Right?

Leanne: Wow.

Jessica: That’s what it is.

Leanne: I can aesthetically appreciate a good set of genitals. And there have been some that I’ve been like, “That’s a weird shape.” But it’s not going to ick me out in that way, you know? I’m still going to be like, “Eh. I’ll try it!”

Jessica: I think that’s so cool. And I wish that I was wired that way. I really do. And a lot of my megasexual friends are all the same thing. They’re just like, “I love cock. I love pussy.” And I’m like, cool! Squirts, too. Like fluids? I’m like “bleh” until - but if my switch is on, I want it all over me. And I’ve talked a little bit about this before. And other demi-sluts have been like, “Oh my god. Thank you for putting that into words.” But that’s how I’m like, “Maybe I could be mega?!” and then I’m like, “Nope. Nope nope nope nope. I can’t do it.”

Leanne: (laughs) Yeah no. Bodies don’t gross me out. As long as they’re clean, and it smells the way it should smell and all, then I’m like, yeah. Let’s go. It’s like what I said. It’s about learning someone’s body.

I think the main thing for me is just knowing – not so much feeling special or anything like that – but knowing that they are listening to me. You know? I don’t just mean listening like verbally to what I’m saying and what I like and all that, but also listening to my body. The way I respond, the sounds I’m making. Whatever. That’s kind of what gets me. When someone is listening and adapting, and we’re moulding to each other. That’s what it is for me.

Jessica: Are you able to differentiate between sexual chemistry and someone who just isn’t a good lover, but could be?

Leanne: Mmmm…

Jessica: Okay. Because sometimes I’ve been like, “Wow. You have potential, but you just haven’t been taught. You haven’t had the right partner, the right education.” And other times, I’ve been like, “No. This is a chemistry issue.” 

Leanne: That’s such a good question, because I’ve been thinking about – there have been some people I’ve met who have had the enthusiasm, but they don’t have the skill. I do think that sex – just like any other ability and skill – some people have a natural talent for it, and some people have to work really hard at it, and some people, no matter what they do, they’re going to be shit at it. And that’s the unfortunate truth. It’s kind of like how some people are naturally really good at singing, some people have to take lessons and work at it and get really good at it, and some people are just tone deaf. 

Jessica: Yes. Acknowledging – so you think some people can just never be good at sex?

Leanne: I have met people – or maybe it’s just that they vibed badly. But I have had sex with friends who I really care for and vibe with. And I’ve been patient with them, because I’ve been like, “I really want this sexual connection to work, dude!” And we do it three or four times, and I’m actually holding their fucking hand to tell them what to do, and it’s just not happening! I can not express to you the amount of patience and frustration that process was. And at the end of it, I was just like, look. I just don’t know what it is. So, I don’t know. I don’t know. I think that there have been situations where someone has been good in bed, but we haven’t had sexual chemistry. And there have been times where we have had sexual chemistry, but that hasn’t translated in skill. So, yeah. I do think that they are separate things.

Jessica: Ok. So I have the perfect way to end this. My brain just boiled down. So you are experiencing passion during these first sexual encounters, yeah? Would you call it passion? For me, the passion has to be there. I’m sure you’re like “whatever!” to astrology. But to anyone listening to this who knows what I’m talking about: I’m a Sagittarius sun, fire. I’ve got Cancer moon, Cancer rising. That is water signs. It’s fucking emotion. I’m double cancer. That is why I’m fucking crazy. And then Venus in Scorpio. That’s the plunge to the depths of myself, okay? So, I am a fucking passionate lover. I love the passion. And when the passion isn’t there, I’m like aacchh! This is so weird! But for me, if I felt passion with someone that I just met, it would feel insincere to me. I would be like, “You’re making this up. How are you feeling passion for me? You don’t even know me.” It’s feeling special. It’s feeling special that makes me feel the passion.

So I definitely think it is how I’m wired, but I’m excited to get out here with your tutelage, and your feedback, and play around with some different types of connections. And see what I can create for myself. You definitely called me out. You were like, “Why are you only dating dudes? Why am I never hearing you talk about women?” And I was like, because so many reasons I don’t want to get into in this episode! But anyway – I have a first date with a woman. All thanks to you! This whole connection is all dedicated to you, because yesterday you called me out and I was like, I should download a lesbian dating app. And then I did it, because of you. And then I found this goddess.

Leanne: Yes!

Jessica: So we’ll see how that goes! Yeah! And she’s so fun to talk to. I’m like. This is stupid! Why am I even talking to men??

Leanne: (laughs) It’s just funny, because you were like kind of late in life bisexual, whatever. So I was like – I’m seeing you embracing your sexuality and stuff, but like, where are the women? Where are the non-binary? I’m just seeing a bunch of dudes in your stories! What’s going on?

Jessica: It’s fucking grooming. And the hyper-romantic vs demi-romantic. I don’t know. It’s like I can push myself out of my comfort zone, but the end of the day, I’m still wired how I’m wired. And I call myself a late-blooming bisexual. Because I’ve known I was bi forever – and identified as bi forever. But I was not comfortable pursuing it. And I think it’s because of the demisexuality. I didn’t know I was demisexual. So I would have women hitting on me. I would go to queer student union events at my college – and I would just be super uncomfortable having a demi-script.

But anyway. This conversation has been amazing. Thank you for sticking with me. Thank you for your sage advice. Thank you for who you are on the internet and who you are in this world. And – yeah. One day I’m going to come to a sex party with you.

Leanne: Yes. I would love that. And you know, you don’t even have to engage with anyone. Just vibe with me and look at some sexy people, you know? Aesthetic attraction, right? Just aesthetically appreciate all these people dancing in lingerie. It will be really fun.

Jessica: Ok. I can’t wait. Ok. Have a great day. I’m going to go to bed.

Leanne: Alright. Okay. Bye!

Jessica: Bye!

Leanne: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Happy Polydays series. If you’d like to support my work, consider becoming a Patreon subscriber at patreon.com/polyphiliablog. You can also follow me at @polyphiliablog on Instagram, Tiktok, Facebook, and Twitter, buy my polyamory merch at polyphiliashop.redbubble.com, or book a peer support session with me on my website polyphilia.blog. Until next time!